100 years of solitude/opioid public health crisis

Buprenorphine Post
Dave
Posts: 187

Postby Dave » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:21 am

peterorrin, you are quite correct. The only reason I can imagine the War on Drugs continues, is because some people in government are making lots of money from it. I leave it to your imagination as to how that is happening.

Government again is creating more problems by cutting the supply, as you have said. Yes, following the Prohibition experiment of the 1930s, we should be legalizing and regulating, much like was done with alcohol.

peterorrin
Posts: 267

Postby peterorrin » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:21 am

The drug war is 40 years old. We lost. We never had a chance. If the DEA cuts supply, the price goes up, usage remains the same, and the cartel makes more money.

The 'cure' is to legalize and regulate; think of the benefits of needle exchange.

Society makes tough choices for the common and individual good. That conversation should resume.

Peter


Jeremy K
Posts: 109

Postby Jeremy K » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:21 am

Yeah, Dave, if the substantial majority of the sheeple and their masters were concentrated in one geographic area of the nation, it might be time to say 'when in the course of human events...' Unfortunately there are pockets of them all over the nation, mostly in and around the larger cities, both coasts, around D.C., etc. I foresee collapse, slow or fast, and fairly soon. I can only hope I'm wrong.

kcairns
Posts: 571

Postby kcairns » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:21 am

"earth - game over" by John Feffer of the Institute for Policy Studies is an article i just read. imo it won't be over for our beautiful wondrous beloved earth until our sun burns out, but it is over for sure and soon for human civilization the extinction of which will allow earth to heal. The richest 85 individuals have as much wealth as 3.5 billion people. (would Katniss agree that Gatsby-Nature addiction rather than chemical addiction is HSapiens tragic flaw (hamartia)?) National governments/big money/transnational corporations are one and the same. Is the war on drugs wrong and for profit? - sure. should there be a role for government? Sure - for example in a public health crisis. How is ours doing, in re the opioid addiction crisis? - even when heads of CDC and of Samhsa agree it is a crisis, very little ability to do anything, ie like increasing access to treatment.Should there be the moral equivalent of war in struggles for earth and all her people and in re such as to prevent opioid addiction? per me, for sure. in my view, right now - the reward for best efforts to prevent opioid addiction goes to none other than -- our old archenemy the DEA , in its crackdown on painKILLERmills and guiding patients and providers to personally dig more thoroughly into the existing body of evidence in re efficacy/safety of casually or chronically rxed opioids. DEA also has before FDA right now with much public support and also opposition a request to resched Vicodin etc to CSA-2. Meanwhile The Fix has an article that Bain Capital is investing in Methadone Maintenance Clinics, ie big money increasing access to treatment for corporation gains...( c fed ready per its experience in war and "corrections' to wash its hands again of another part of its underclass and serve them up as corporate feed -- see it now - "ok now - counselling appts = 8 minutes, doc appts = 4, get some cheaper methadone and o you cant pay and are pregnant,well Ciao, Bela". For me as a conscient organism - what affects me most - on my political side - and i think this does relate to our work -- as the issues of human substance use and subtance addiction i do believe are very connected w over-riding human issues -- the issue of the harms humans do (and allow to be done) through "not-knowing", very much subjects of both Greek and Shakespearian tragedy - and i paraphrase the one-and-only Bard of Stratford on Avon in stating - "the harms that men do live after them " and much so the harms done (through actions or in-actions ) because of "not-knowing"..(my putting in this thread the words of Gabo Garcia Marquez is about the emotion of myself and others in re the crux of solitude being interwoven w the lack of means to render the facts of reality credible to the majority) .--For best direction (for me) in my lifetime -- for the people (and earth) i want to help and to see helped - best approach for such to happen - the completely and thoroughly studied words and lives and works and actions and emulations of actions (to move homosapiens beyond racism. militarism and materialism and - i add - discriminatism, and discriminatogenic, dysChristogenic underaddressed public health epidemics of our planet's untouchables and unaddressed mass incarcerations of our country's untouchables) -- of Martin Luther King, Jr ("nothing is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and a conscientious stupidity") and Coretta Scott King,-- and nothing, not even looming human extinction, is reason to give away your or my lifetime's benediction to live so nobly ("whatsoever ye do"...) and and may the force be with each and every one of us

Dave
Posts: 187

Postby Dave » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:21 am

JeremyK, you are my kind of guy, and I think Ken is also on board. I agree with everything you wrote, including the fact that what is needed will not be done. All that I can add is that I think too many people in power have a great deal to gain from keeping drugs illegal. It is easy for these people to convince the sheeple that drugs are bad and must be kept illegal. It is as if Prohibition never happened. Sheeple do not know or understand history. Sheeple by nature are ignorant and happy in their servitude to the powers that be. The true patriots are not so numerous as they were in 1776. The Declaration of Independence shows the way to regain the freedom we once had. But the current regime regards militias as terrorists.

kcairns
Posts: 571

Postby kcairns » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:21 am

Hi Jeremy, thanks for helping me by sending your advice to the nation...i would like to send them all somehow to the nation. i send you the following in thanks, best, ken...""Let us therefore understand by logic, if we can, how it happens that this obstinate willingness to submit has become so deeply rooted in a nation that the very love of liberty now seems no longer natural", Etienne de la Boetie, The Politics of Obedience. "The more laws that are written, the more criminals are produced", Tao Te Ching

Jeremy K
Posts: 109

Postby Jeremy K » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:21 am

Well, you asked for my advice for the nation, here it is:
You can't eliminate it; since there have been people and addictive substances, there has been abuse of addictive substances, that's human nature. But with just a few legal changes in my opinion we could reduce the narcotic problem to the 'nuisance level' alcohol is.
#1. Ring the schoolyard with cops, shoot anyone gives them to kids (metaphorically speaking; i.e., stringent laws against endangering minors with them, enforce them vigorously)
#2. Eliminate gov't welfare.
#3. Legalize all addictive substances. Watch the prisons empty. Watch the profits to be made in dealing the stuff drop like a rock. Will people die from easy access to narcotics? Yes. THEY'RE DYING NOW! But some at least will find that they can no longer finance their habit by selling, and they can't get free food from the gov't. Therefore they will limit their usage enough to actually work so they can eat. The question is: overall will there be a net benefit to the nation by doing these things? IMNSHO, yes, greatly. Also, IMO, it's a freedom issue: who says gov't is competent to determine whether and what mind-altering substances will be allowed for a citizen to make/import, give/sell to another citizen, who wants to take them?

Now granted, I'm not so disconnected from reality to think the above will ever happen. We The People are not nearly wise enough. No, We The People will continue to try to fix human nature exacerbated by gov't regulation with...more gov't regulation! This does not end well.

kcairns
Posts: 571

Postby kcairns » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:21 am

Dave (and others), I hope from this thread to get advice from webboard docs to send to higher levels saying, "America, if you really want to solve the opioid addiction public health crisis, here are some good ideas for you" ... what we each do in our own work is vital but if dealing w the public health crisis is more than just lip services, then also public health measures are needed, such as decreasing exposure to the causative agents...and other preventive measures such as preventing deaths and infectious disease and crime and social disruption thru expanded access to medication treatment, yes others are also saying such things but our voices here unified also matter because we live this thing close and up front, ...one thing that often comes up on this board is stop the 100 pt limit but that never goes anywhere, because no one knows how to do it --but that is not the right approach ---it is not about we say stop the limit and they say sorry it cant be done -- the approach is ,,,"America this is your public health crisis problem to solve figure it out - woman up - man up - just do it!! and here is advice from the front on what it will take ..you cannot say you do not know what it will take, because we experts are telling you something that will work and that you have not tried --- expand access to treatment and what you are being paid for is to finally implement at least one thing that without any doubt will work, can you say this wont? .....can you say we are wrong to say expanded medication treatment is necessary?, then why havent you done it ALREADY AND IF NOT NOW THEN WHEN? ...of course we would write up our recommendations in a polite way and have to decide who to send them to, perhaps he mentor board would help...BUT WHO EVER HEARD OF CRYING ABOUT A CRISIS AND THEN ARBITRARILY LIMITING THE HUMAN AND MATERIAL RESOURCES TO DEAL W IT.(good material for monty python or will ferrell or tina fey as margaret hamburg -- no -- not good not w 15,000 deaths /yr from rx painKILLERS ).the ASAMagazine piece is about third party max-outs for bup)..this weeks online NEJM which has been posted on another thread actually has 2 great relevant articles, so there is a move already at high places..one points out that tho margaret hamburg likes to tell how many good things FDA has done,her list, "will not reduce pressure (see my entries re ADVOCATES OF PRESCRIPTION OPIOID REFORM, and FED-UP.ORG)from distraught families who are grappling with an alarming loss off life from overdoses"... and a great point made is for FDA to "address the intertwining of chronic pain and addiction farther upstream in the drug development cycle"..brava ,but duh , we already have something there all ready to save lives(in cases of chronic pain where all lesser measures fail) and that is bup instead of addictive and deadly short acting pure agonists or uncontolled methadone for pain..again, please we might ask , "unchain us,who have proved in service our good work, cancel our intimidation,allow us to be if use to you". ... but Dave (and others), these are only a couple of ideas, you all will have more and the whole thing is all this is only if it makes sense to lots of docs on this board, as i am always ok w admitting that i tried something but it didnt make sense to others the way i hoped it would, cheers,ken

Dave
Posts: 187

Postby Dave » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:21 am

Do you need help?


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